March 22, 1999

Even before he became Prime Minister, Atal Bihari Vajpayee combined formidable eloquence in public speaking with colossal reticence during interviews. Things haven't really changed. Vajpayee remains economical with his words and observations. A year in office has, however, made one crucial difference. Prime Minister Vajpayee seems a little more willing to talk about politics, rather than confine himself to policy. In a rare burst of candour, he let on more than usual to Editor Prabhu Chawla.Excerpts:

How do you look back on your first year in office?
With satisfaction. Look at our achievements in the face of challenges. We inherited an economy in a bad shape. Economic revival was our first concern. We have met this challenge. The economy is on the road to recovery. We have also proved our detractors terribly wrong. They had smugly predicted this coalition would not last.

But your Government has been preoccupied with survival and crisis management on a day-to-day basis.
We have actually been preoccupied with governance. We have gone ahead and done things which were considered to be impossible. Look at the facts.

The Cauvery dispute had foxed five previous governments. We settled it.

India needed to conduct critical nuclear tests. But they were kept pending. My Government went ahead. From Pokhran to Lahore, we have travelled a long distance.

Our internal security scenario had become alarming with terrorism and communal-caste violence taking a terrible toll. We have virtually restored peace in Jammu and Kashmir. Last year was almost free of communal clashes and the death toll the lowest in 10 years.

Agricultural growth was declining. We have nursed it back to health and given agriculture its due share. We have made the social sector our primary focus.

Yours is seen as a government which is unable to push legislation through the Rajya Sabha. Can the Government manage through executive orders alone?
In the National Agenda we pledged ourselves to governing by consensus as opposed to governance based on parliamentary arithmetic.

In any case, we have moved and secured passage for several important bills. Be it on patents or on the power regulatory authority. If the Opposition stalls important bills, as it did in the case of the Women's Reservation Bill, the loss is the nation's.

The BJP is a pro-business party. Why then haven't you pushed through real reforms like privatisation and reducing the size and expenditure of the Government?
I don't quite agree with your perception of the BJP as a "pro-business party". The BJP was, and is, a pro-people and an India-first party. It is because of this that we have been able to take hard decisions.

And the real reforms?
Real reforms? I think it is my Government that has initiated real reforms -- reforms with a human face, reforms dictated not by others but those dictated by the welfare of the largest number of people. We have streamlined subsidies even while protecting the poor. We have started the process of disinvestment. We have changed the thrust of development. We have initiated the process of decentralisation up to the panchayat level. These are firm steps towards real reforms.

You were seen as an old-fashioned politician, but in office you are a liberaliser.
I think the debate is between swadeshi and globalisation. There is no conflict between swadeshi and liberalisation. As someone who subscribes to the basic philosophy of swadeshi, I believe in liberalisation.

So, there is no difference between the economic philosophies of the major parties.
Let me put it this way: there once used to be something called the Nehruvian consensus that prescribed to the socialist model of economy. In those days, ours was the odd voice of protest since we believed that it was a model which would not make any lasting contribution.

The Congress came round to our view and eventually embraced free-market economics. Today, the consensus has shifted from the old model to the model which we had all along advocated. Yes, there is a commonality but it is limited to the basic approach. Unlike the Congress, we are not entirely market-driven.We seek to reach out to the last man in the last row.

Let's turn to foreign policy. Your Government started by being totally at variance with earlier regimes. It was aggressive and hawkish. Then you changed tack suddenly.
Foreign policy is in continuum. We have not deviated from that continuity, we have only given it a new focus. Our national security imperatives had to be met and recognised by others. We have met those imperatives.

But do you really believe you can make much forward movement in talks with Pakistan?
Can make? We have already made headway in our talks. Who could have even imagined something like the Lahore Declaration a year ago? Today it is a reality. The declaration and the MOU have given a new direction to bilateral dialogue and confidence-building measures. I am fully confident the talks will now move towards some conclusions.

Are you for signing the CTBT?
The Government's position on the CTBT has been made clear in Parliament and in the UN General Assembly. At this moment there is nothing more to add. India is its own master.

Most of your successes have been in foreign policy. Will you fall into the Gujral trap of being decisive abroad but not as effective at home?

You are not being fair to either Gujral or me. My Government has been effective both at home and abroad. It is just that foreign policy successes get more media coverage. Domestic successes do not. It is like ghar ki murgi daal barabar.

Moving on to domestic politics, why did your Government dismiss the Bihar government when you knew it would be difficult to get it ratified by the Rajya Sabha?

Bihar is a jungle raj. Three C's -- casteism, corruption and criminalisation -- have replaced the other "C" -- Constitution. Bihar has become a killing field for Dalits and the poor. You can't remain blind to the plight of Bihar. It would amount to abdicating my responsibilities. My Government acted with courage knowing fully well the numbers were stacked against us.

The Lok Sabha is the House of the People and our action has been approved by the House of the People. Had it not been for the Congress refusing to act in the interest of the Dalits merely to embarrass us, we could have secured the Rajya Sabha's approval too.

The Congress is free to think that they have embarrassed us. The truth is they let down the Dalits of Bihar. They stand exposed for putting political opportunism above morality.

Did you really believe that the Congress would support you?
As I have already told you, the issue was not one of parliamentary arithmetic. It was a moral issue, not political.

Yes, I had expected the Congress to stand by the people of Bihar, especially the brutalised Dalits of the state. Instead, the Congress chose to stand by the discredited regime of Rabri Devi. So much for the Congress president's professed concern for Dalits and her assertion that the Rabri Devi government has no moral right to remain in power.

Where do you think things went wrong?
For me it was not a game of one-upmanship, but the need to restore a semblance of law and order in Bihar. For that, I did not hesitate to meet the Congress president to ask her to reconsider her party's position.

Is there a threat to the Government from its own allies?
I don't see any danger in coalition politics. I see opportunities. What you describe as pulls and pressures are in reality the articulation of the interests of our allies. Since most of them are regional parties, it is but natural that they will seek redress for regional grievances that have been long ignored. My job is to fit these into a mosaic of national interests. We had some teething problems. Learning along the way, a year down the line we have been able to settle down as a team.

So, the real danger is the Congress.
As the main opposition party the Congress' job is to oppose us. I only wish this opposition is healthy and not dictated by petty, partisan considerations. Yet, my Government does not depend on Congress mercy. We are here on our own strength.

Yet, you go out of your way to humour Sonia. Like instructing Doordarshan to delete portions of Maneka Gandhi's interview.

Where is the need to humour the Congress president? The Congress has chosen to appoint Sonia Gandhi as chairperson of its parliamentary party. Because of that position, the Government does discuss issues with her on certain occasions. This is part of our democratic tradition.

I read in the newspapers that Maneka Gandhi's interview was edited. I am yet to ascertain the facts, but I doubt that even if it were true, it would have been done, as you say, merely to humour her sister-in-law.

In opposition you made anti-corruption an issue. So, how do you view your Government's efforts to bail out Jayalalitha in the various corruption cases?
Our commitment to integrity and probity is unimpeachable. I take great pride in the fact that nobody can point an accusing finger at this Government. It is by far the cleanest Government India has had in decades.

As for Ms Jayalalitha, the cases are sub judice and it would be incorrect for me to comment on any of them. But all our actions have been well within the four corners of the law.

What about Mohan Guruswamy's allegations that the PMO wanted the UTI to transfer its ITC shares to BAT?
The allegations are too contemptible to deserve comment.

After a year in office your personal popularity is intact while your party's fortunes have nosedived. Why this mismatch?
How can you separate the party and me? I head the Government, the party leads the alliance. The Government has performed, and performed well. This success will add to the party's popularity. Yes, expectations are sky-high. But we are prepared to meet those expectations.

How are your relations with Home Minister L.K. Advani? Is the BJP pulling in different directions?
I talk to Advani each day. We consult each other daily. Yet you people speculate. Like a record stuck in a groove. One more time, let me say there is no problem. When there is, I'll let you know.

There is a belief that Prime Minister Vajpayee has turned his back on everything BJP leader Vajpayee stood for.
Prime Minister Vajpayee has done what BJP leader Vajpayee stood for and believed in. But one should not forget that this a coalition government which I am leading. Together we are committed to the National Agenda for Governance.

How can a person like you, with avowed liberal ideas, associate with regressive people in your own party?
I am a liberal democrat; my party is a liberal democratic party. The BJP is a forward-looking party that believes in a modern, forward-looking India. So do I. We believe in India -- its past and its future. What is regressive about that?

Isn't it time for a new-look BJP without its hard-liners? Isn't that the way to revive the party?
The BJP was born in independent India. We have kept in step with the times. The party has evolved. It continues to evolve into a modern party with a modernising outlook. We believe in democracy, both inside and outside the party, not in dynasty. That puts us far ahead of the Congress.

Our party is alive. Only a party that is not alive needs to be revived. We shall leave that task to the Congress leadership.

Finally, the million dollar question. How long do you think your Government will survive?
We have come and we are here to stay.

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